Breaking the Code with Fatou Thiam

Hafsah: Breaking the Code with Gabriella tells the story of a young girl who overcomes gender stereotypes in robotics, cementing herself as a role model for young women. The book includes science and engineering information, such as the design process and Java tutorials. As part of our initiative to empower young girls to pursue their interests in STEM, we are running the Breaking the Code with Gabriella: Trailblazers in STEM Speaker Series, which explores the careers of women in science, technology, engineering, and math. The series aims to dispel gender stereotypes and aid young students in getting advice on how to pursue their own passions.

 

Hafsah: Today, we broke the code with Fatou Thiam, a senior programmer analyst at McHenry County College. She also works at Girls Who Code as a Self Paced Program Advisor. She previously worked in Paris as an IT project manager and business analyst. She holds a computer science degree from the University of Orsay in France and studied web development at Northwestern.

 

Hafsah: Now, I'll let her tell us a little bit more about herself. Anything about your journey in STEM, your future goals, and your current interests that you think are notable. 

 

Fatou: Okay, so thank you for having me. As you said, I'm Fatou. I work as a Senior Program Analyst. I like to define myself as someone who is really interested in girls in STEM and helping young girls look into STEM fields. One of my future goals is to work at Girls Who Code, which is an international organization. My long-term goal is to help young girls in all communities. I'm from Senegal, Africa, where I was born and raised. My biggest goal is to bring that type of program and curriculum to kids there, targeting young girls in developing countries. They don't necessarily have the tools or knowledge for that, but I want to bring this type of organization there. That's one of my biggest goals, and I'm looking forward to working with Girls Who Code on that.

 

Hafsah: You've done a lot of work with Girl Who Code. How does your work there help girls' longer STEM journey, and do you have any plans for taking different roles there in the future?

 

Fatou: Yes, as I said, it is an international nonprofit organization, and we're working to close the gender gap in technology. We provide programs that educate, equip, and inspire girls with the computing skills they need to pursue careers in 21st-century technology. I've had different roles at Girl Code. The first one was as a teacher in our summer program. We used to have a longer summer immersion program before COVID. Now it's a two-week program with virtual classes. I enjoyed teaching before COVID, which is why I stayed with Girls Who Code. Now I'm a summer self-paced program advisor. The self-paced program is a flexible virtual computer science course with a project-based curriculum. My role is to co-advise and support a cohort of about 400 students for six weeks starting in early July. I provide instructional support, review, and feedback on their projects. We have different tracks and advisor events where we do workshops with the girls on cybersecurity, web development, and career development. We invite our partners to talk about their current positions and what they are doing in STEM.

 

Fatou: As I stated earlier, I want to bring Girls Who Code into more countries. Right now, we are working in the United States and UK, but my goal is to reach third-world countries. There might be some language barriers, but I hope we can bring this type of curriculum and program to young girls who might not be aware of these opportunities. I was born in Senegal, a third-world country, and growing up, I didn't know much about STEM. I don't want to talk too much about that now, as I think you have some questions about it. I tend to talk a lot, but I just love trying to inspire young girls as much as I can if they are interested in STEM. I'll stop here and let you finish.

 

Hafsah: That was a great answer. My next question is: you currently work as a Senior Program Analyst. What does that entail, and can you tell us more about what your day-to-day work looks like?

 

Fatou: Yeah, so Senior Programmer Analyst, as the name suggests, refers to a senior level of experience in programming and analysis. One of the most interesting parts of my position is providing analysis. This involves talking to my users, learning about their issues or any improvements they want, analyzing what we have, and determining what we can provide to them. Behind that, we implement all the programming and tools.

 

Fatou: I'm in charge of a document imaging system called SoftDocs, which is a process automation solution for K-12. I work at a community college in McHenry. Currently, I'm also training in another ERP system. ERP is a software system that allows the college to manage different aspects of our business, including student registration, personal information, financial aid, and everything else. My goal is to ensure I know all the processes and resources we use to help our students. My daily life varies depending on the project stage. I might be in a highly project-based environment, which is my current focus. In such cases, we have a roadmap listing everything that needs to be done within a specific time frame, leading up to an implementation date for user testing. I start my day by checking emails to ensure no high-priority issues came up overnight. I allocate a couple of hours in the morning to go through our ticketing system, where people report their issues. I work with another program analyst, and I assign tasks based on priority.

 

Fatou: While projects are a significant part of our job, we also need to support our users in their daily work. For example, I'm currently working on career development tracking for our faculty members. I've done the programming and delivered it to the users for testing. It's challenging to get users to commit to testing due to their busy schedules. I take feedback, make necessary updates, and deliver new versions for further testing. Throughout the day, I continuously check the ticketing system to address any new issues that arise.

 

Hafsah: Alright, well thank you so much. You've also worked in both France and the US, as I mentioned earlier. Can you tell us a little more about how computer science work differs between the two countries, and do you have any advice for computer science students looking to work outside of America?

 

Fatou: Okay, so computer science, as you may know, uses the same technical language, so I didn't see any difference in the technical aspects of working in France and the United States. The biggest difference is really more cultural. That [difference] becomes the more important one when working in the client space when you have a project and users. You need to make sure that you understand the company and country culture. For example, here in the US, when I run my User Acceptance Test (UAT), you don't need a long, official document. They focus more on doing the work, and how you present it is less important. In Paris, the biggest difference is people need everything to be put into paper so they can go back to it. In the US, it’s very different. 

 

Fatou: That is the biggest difference I have seen. On the technical side, I haven’t seen any big differences. Then, my advice for computer science students who are looking to work outside of America. My biggest advice is to make sure—and that’s because I have been faced with that [myself]—is to make sure that the degree you have is “recognized” in the country you want to work. I had the issue, coming from France to the United States, where I had my bachelor's degree from a well-known university in France that no one knows in the US. My advice is to make sure your degree is well recognized and the other one is to make sure that you “study” or learn the country’s culture. That can especially help as you would be working with users; knowing the culture and how people react, knowing how they walk, etc. can be helpful if you’re planning to work in another country.

 

Hafsah: All right, I mean it’s just one of the things you don’t think about. So throughout your journey, what challenges have you faced as a woman in a male-dominated field, and how have you overcome them?

 

Fatou: Okay, up to maybe the past couple of years, I always tell people and my daughters that I was lucky enough to always work in a 99% male environment. I never felt undervalued or anything, but now I realize that the biggest difference is really how I present myself. To this day, I am the only programmer analyst woman, and a black woman, in our department.

 

Fatou: What really makes a difference is how you present yourself. I've never felt or even thought about the fact that I'm the only woman. I feel like I'm there because it's my place. They hired me because there's something I can bring to the company and the department. I have the skill set for that, and knowing that allowed me to not feel less than my male coworkers. This helped in how they viewed me. Except for a couple of years ago, I had to face an older male colleague who was shocked to see a black woman coding. When you face such things, the biggest thing is how you react and address it. You need to react respectfully and report it. I reported it right away, and I had a supportive supervisor who took care of it. The colleague apologized, and it was done.

 

Fatou: The biggest thing is really how you come to the department. In a male-dominated field, you have to know your value. You're there not because they just wanted to hire you, but because you're legitimate and your skill set is valuable. When people see that you're confident, don't feel underrepresented. Even if you are “unrepresented,” you have to know that “I’m here because that is my place” and then once you feel like you know that, you present yourself differently and that can help people—male or female—change how they will interact with you. I think that is really what helped me and that’s why I’m lucky enough to never really feel any type of discrimination, except the one I talked about, during my 14 years of career. It’s really important to know your worth, know that you are there because you have a place there, and then hopefully from there everything should be fine. 

 

Hafsah: That's really powerful advice. On a very similar note, if there was any piece of career-related advice you could give to your middle school self, what would it be?

 

Fatou: Oh, that would be "You can do it." It's cheesy, but I tell my girls, everything you put your mind to, you can do it. You just have to give yourself the tools, work, do your research, and make yourself be able to do it. In middle school, I didn't know anything about STEM-related careers. I would tell my middle school self and all middle school kids, you can do it. If you want to work in STEM, if you want to work in any field, you can do it. I have a little girl who's obsessed with NASA, and I tell her, “there’s not a lot of girls and women there, but you can do it.” Just do everything you can for that. There's a part of things that's out of your control, but as long as you do your part, the rest should follow.

 

Hafsah: Alright, building off the previous question, what advice would you give to young girls who are looking to get involved with programming? 

 

Fatou: Keep going, keep doing it. Funny enough, we are working on a workshop during the self-program because right now we hear a lot about AI. A lot of young people, especially young girls, are looking to programming but are a little shy. They’re like “is there a future in it, is AI going to take out jobs?” I would say no. We are including the fact that students can use AI in a smart way, like they use Google and Stack Overflow for help with coding. They can do the same thing for AI, but they just need to understand that AI is just a tool. You have to use your brain, think before you use it, and understand that AI will evolve. It will need a human part as far as we know.

 

Fatou: There are so many different parts of programming right now. Data science and AI programming are really popular. I would tell them not to be scared of what they're hearing about AI taking over. Just pursue their dream, pursue what they want, and hopefully, down the road, there are many ways to work in computing and programming. Keep doing what they want and work towards that. That's my biggest advice, especially in this day and age. Computing is still popular, but AI is scaring young kids. I tell them to keep going, pursue their dreams, and work in a field they're passionate about. It's the biggest fulfillment, feeling excited about your job. I'm sorry I tend to talk a lot, but I'm really excited about this. I want all these young girls to not be scared, keep doing it, and find organizations that work for them. There are many organizations like Girls Who Code and Black Girls Code that give them the tools they need to pursue their careers in the 21st century. Those organizations are so important.

 

Hafsah: Thank you so much for sharing all about your career and your journey, and for giving us all of your insight. We really appreciate it. 

 

Fatou: Thank you; thank you for having me.